The Dinner

We had a very interesting discussion about this Dutch family drama played out over the dinner table in a posh restaurant.  While most of us had quite a few reservations, about the plot and the central characters, George continued to make his mark in his capacity as new book group member - he really loved the premise - the veneer of middle class respectability hiding violence just under the surface, the characters and the plot.  He also found a lot of it very funny, especially the bits where Paul is giving someone a thrashing... He thought the characters were refreshingly direct (fairly typical of the Dutch in his experience) and the dilemma of loyalty to family vs social conscience cleverly balanced.  Carole also enjoyed the book quite a lot, how the unreliable narrator's dark nature was gradually revealed to the reader and the tight narrative style (ugh, 2 hours on and I'm already sketchy on the discussion..!)  She also really enjoyed the sibling rivalry, and Paul's obvious resentment for his more successful brother.  Caroline and Anna both started off enjoying it, but became disillusioned as the story unfolded.  Chris found the characters and story thoroughly unconvincing and unengaging throughout.  She wondered whether the translation was part of what turned her off it.  Jill had not finished it but was not very impressed so far.  While most of us agreed that the dinner was a useful device to pace the story, some of us found the references to the meal and how everyone behaved at it repetitive or 'clunky' at times, and some of us wondered whether they would really have chosen such a public setting to discuss their sons' involvement in murder.  The more we discussed it the more we accepted that you had to suspend disbelief about that, along with the details of Paul's mental illness, the lack of any sign of police / criminal justice intervention, and see it as a piece of theatre populated by very sinister caricatures.  Depending on how attached we are to having empathetic characters in a book, the total lack of them effected some of our enjoyment.  Those which probably were sympathetic in reality (Babette, Beau) were tarnished by Paul's  twisted view of the world.  There was an interesting debate as to whether Paul's reaction to seeing the Youtube videos of what we later knew to be 'follow up' violence to the original crime against the homeless woman, was motivated by genuine concern that his son was serially violent or just anger/worry that they had been made public.  Claire's character was particularly sinister, her true nature not being revealed til late in the book, but then made responsible for orchestrating Beau's disappearance and voicing the most overt hatred of homeless murder victim.  

Judith's notes:

So here are my hastily-typed thoughts on the Dinner. It wasn't quite what I expected, really. The device of the dinner was quite good in terms of pacing things, and the revelation of the main character's past worked initially, but I was expecting more psychological tension and less actual violence. I wasn't sure that giving Paul a specific 'condition' was necessary to explain his instincts, though I guess it did serve to raise questions about Clare and what she did or didn't know (everything and more, as it turned out). 

The other characters i found harder to read, especially Babette, who i couldn't work out at all. The mysterious figure of Beau raised some interesting questions, particularly about attitudes to race, though I thought the episode of Michel's essay was a bit inconclusive, hard to say whether he was just trying to impress his father or expressing some sort of actual belief system. Once again, all the main characters were so unsympathetic that I didn't really want to dwell on their motivations!

Having said that, it was clever on some levels and it did keep me reading. Also always hard to judge a book in translation.

Scores:

Judith      6.5

George    9

Chris       5

Jill           6.5

Anna       6.5

Carole     7.5

Annie      6.5

Caroline   6.5

'The wave and the smile were meant to show that from out there, it probably all looked worse than it was.  That I'd had an argument with the Principal about his, Michel's, essay, but that in the mean time everything had come closer to being sorted out'

Under the Same Stars

It is over a month since we met to discuss this book, I didn't keep any notes, have returned my copy of the book to the library and we've had the Christmas festive season in between to further addle my brain.  So expect even less accuracy and insight than you normally would...  As I remember it, Carole who had chosen the book was relatively positive about it, although obviously knocked off a point for the violent death of an innocent pooch.  She felt that it was a fairly accurate portrayal of a depressive character (based on the author himself) and enjoyed the narrative style as well as the content.  Anna & our new book group member George were deeply unimpressed - they both felt that the language was over indulgent and had no sympathy with the main character.  In view of this, Carole put her score up a bit...!  I quite enjoyed the book, largely because it was so rude about Americans, but felt frustrated about the father's character, that seemed so contradictory and unrealistic.  Chris found the story very turgid, and again felt little empathy with the characters.  Judging by her score, Caroline liked it (but, so sorry Caroline, I can't remember why...!) I vow to be more timely with next month's write up...Please add stuff in the comment box to make it a more accurate record

Judith's write up
Personally I was a bit prejudiced against it from the start after realising that the author was the same guy who writes a column I really hate in the Saturday Guardian! I didn't hate the book, just felt a bit indifferent to it and felt it didn't know quite what it wanted to be - some moments of pathos, some humour, but nothing very definite (although arguably that was all part of the slightly wishy washy 'British' persona it was trying to convey). I found the main character (his depression notwithstanding) just so unlikeable, though, that I didn't really care about his 'journey'. thought the writing was poor (over-descriptive and a bit indulgent) at the start although it improved as the book progressed. Also thought it was all tied up too neatly at the end.

Scores

Carole         8
Chris           5
Caroline       8
Annie           7
George         3
Anna            6
Judith            5